Thank you very much for coming back to
another episode of Fret Buzz The Podcast.
My name is Aaron Sefchick, and this is my
co-host Joe McMurray and today we have
a very special guest with us Mr. Cole
Holland. Hey how’s it going Cole. Great,
good to see you again Aaron. Yeah, you as
well. Thanks for coming on. Yeah, I’m
very delighted. Yeah, today we’re
gonna talk a little bit about
education, some job opportunities as we
kind of always get into. I’ve known Cole
for a very long time, he actually was a
student of mine many years ago.
He came to me wanting to play the solo
to Hotel California. Yeah and I got Cole
started on his journey into
guitar theory and he kind of took it
from there
obviously as you’ll see as we get into
today. So yeah, let’s just jump in let’s
uh tell us a little bit about yourself :
ok I think you have a website as well
Cole no it’s just hollandaise you’re
right yeah well the name is Cole Holland
and there is another Cole Holland artist
out there so I chose hollandaise against
somewhat of a flair yeah of a creative
flair – yeah I work a fan of Eggs
Benedict I
I do enjoy good x-band a good poached
egg every now and then like that with
the a is oh yeah it’s hollandaze,
and daze o that’s totally different
being in a daze like dazed and confused
yeah okay you took that a different
direction than I was my head’s on food
it’s breakfast time yeah yeah oh yeah
hollandaise I do have a website I’ve
announced up to I need to update it
because it’s been a busy year last year
but um
yeah I met Aaron I grew up in Virginia
and I met him in Virginia he was working
at I still is I believe right we’re
still working about to rock yeah butter
oh yeah so I just started taking lessons
at some point I found myself there and
then like you said kind of jumpstart him
my my needs that want to learn ASA looks
I don’t know how to do anything or they
first I was just playing like I didn’t
just want to play around but yeah just
like any other player you know tabs off
the internet was exactly and I will say
you know in terms of when Cole did come
to me he 10 years ago yeah it was as a
teacher you have your normal students
that just come and go and they learn and
you kind of you know the ones that it’s
a hobby you also know the ones where
it’s not a hobby and it’s something that
they’re a little more serious about but
from the get-go I kind of had this
feeling that cool and I’m serious about
this had this like you had this like
thing about how like it was your future
and you were into it and like everything
that I’d said you were like formed and I
was like all right he’s Cole’s got it
man you’ve got it and you did man you
just took it from me
it was great cause I still had no plans
to even attend yeah you to school at
that point at all you know it wasn’t
really actually until I moved to Florida
I started taking everything really
seriously and I decided to take
everything seriously then I did but then
everything kind of changed I think once
I got high cap with you high school I
was like okay why he also need to start
working on the career path right and I
didn’t even at first music which was
just music it was that my only hobby
besides like video games when I’m back
then so I was just playing guitar all
the time but then I really did turn had
some special so how did that change how
what was that transition like well when
I moved I had to find a teacher because
I once I started taking lessons for me
being in front of a teacher as opposed
to being self-taught I already just I
felt like I was gonna do better and
learn more and be more efficient if I
had someone in front of me teaching me
and showing me
what’s going on right so holding you
accountable exactly right so I found a
teacher and he just knew he was really
big into a lot of jazz and a lot of all
styles of music but he giving us he kind
of introduced me to jazz like mine every
the Jazz at all I’ve been attending jazz
show so we started getting into theory
and how to improvise and I just took it
by just like dove into it I got really
serious for a little bit and started
getting into all different styles but I
remember when I first got introduced to
jazz and what you can do on the guitar
that you’re not really aware of until
you start listening to other styles of
music and how much there is for you to
learn the guitar likes it’s you know
it’s always it’s a life’s work you’re
never gonna learn it all but I just got
so excited I guess and I got really
serious about it I just I want to really
take take my time with it and spend you
know five six hours a day see how much I
could get on my fingers in that day and
just just try it just blossom into this
beautiful relationship with the guitar
it’s true when you when you discover
when you start studying jazz and you
realize that like they’re no there are
no rules and there’s no limit to what
you can do right harmonically origin
what’s that I think really is just
fronting your passion that happened at
the time and still there’s that I’ve
really found that something within its
are not just playing guitar but a realm
of guitar that really caught my
attention mm-hmm and I really just felt
a strong connection to it and that’s why
it still to this day I spend a lot I’m
about to start spending a lot more time
again with like solo guitar arrangements
and everything because it just that
stuff really is really cool to me how
you can stretch harmony and how to play
guitar like a piano and everything
mm-hmm that’s really cool to me you need
to be able to sit down and play by
yourself without a band is uh yeah it’s
really nice there’s just a guitar
sitting somewhere you actually do
arguably one of the hardest things to do
if you really want to put up a full show
it yeah it’s it can be it’s very tough
yeah yeah again they build your
repertoire up and that’s one big problem
– repertoire because I spend so much
time learning a little bit of this a
little bit of that not my repertoire is
very vast but all sorts of styles and
like I just have such a strong passion
jazz and I just need to spend more time
with some more standards and more
obscure standards because that’s just an
art form that you need to not you need
to spend time with hours and hours and
hours and hours with yeah when I was in
a when I was in music school I had a
hard time putting the amount of time I
needed into a song and I didn’t realize
I wasn’t putting it enough but I just
had a hard time like memorizing
everything and keeping everything
straight and being yeah to also know the
chord progression and well enough to
solo and right off the beaten path and
since I’ve left school I’ve I’ve found
that I’ll spend like I’ll sit down with
a song like recently I’ve been playing
joy spring by Clifford Brown and I think
I spent like six hours the first day on
it like oh yeah all day like it’s all I
did that whole day and then I like for
weeks I’ve been taking like every day
I’m learning if I learn a new lick or
new I’m thinking about a different
I don’t over joy spring over that
progression and like now like I played
it at the far last night it’s it’s like
one of my go-to thing that in that
period of time some other things that I
haven’t been working on they fall by the
wayside and I’d say they’re not
performing anymore it’s it’s a constant
battle yes to keep all your stuff up to
date I know it really is and I just lost
a lot excited spent the past year
picking from a master list of like 270
songs of mm-hmm
primarily are be a Motown music and funk
and rock and you know some standards
here and there but it’s hard and you
know we talked about time earlier it’s
really hard just have enough time in the
day to do what you want to do and
sometimes well you got to focus on stuff
that you need to do for work and then
focus on yourself and then okay now I
have an hour to you know brush chef
Donnelly or something your worm has solo
something like that but you know always
a good time to do all that stuff but
yeah I mean just when I first met you
here you know I started giving some some
pedals and whatnot I had a multi-effects
processor mm-hmm boss me 50 and had a
little looper in it so I remember just
like I would learn chords from you and
learn we’d have
I definitely some scale sheets probably
pentatonic scales modes you know we’re
working on modes as I was leaving yep
which I’ve come back to actually the
basic modes it’s so funny how you come
back to the basics and get that stuff
under your fingers because like it’s
essential easy to skip over it but I
would just put it on a chord progression
this solo solo and play for hours and
that’s like when you have that
playground like jazz it gives you that
space to be for as an improviser to
really just go forth and do whatever you
want you can really find so many cool
unique ways to play the same thing over
and over again these new approaches it’s
like for someone who everybody know our
guitar players love improvising of
course you know we live for the solos
yeah yeah but just that just really
sparked something for me with with jazz
and whether it was hearing a pianist or
sax player or something going out live
and you chose it just I felt some energy
I was really drawn to it so I just got
sucked in and I was starting with that
guy for a while in Orlando he ended up
living with me for a year you need a new
place to stay so it was like free in
exchange for free lessons every day you
got a free place to stay there’s nothing
where I’m living with a teacher I credit
a lot of that too because you’re right
there every day like working practice
and study every day that you see your
teacher every day and of course we
became great friends we wanted to live
together every was going to be I think
simply just a teacher to a relationship
it was a friendship too you know yeah
totally that’s that’s how to my teacher
Tony and I yeah we you lived with me for
two and a half years and every day it
was like let’s dig into anything and
everything and yeah this just completely
just yeah so whether it was like you
know studying players with a heavy jazz
background but then apply that elsewhere
or studying fusion so whether it’s like
you know this guy was a big chocolate
Laughlin van sorts of that stuff right
out of the gate Jaco Pastorius
Ted green like Allan Holdsworth like a
lot of heavy hit any guitar players and
cutting various genres and seeing how
you know how how serious others guys
take their theory in their practice and
everything if you want to get to that
level there’s a lot of stuff
rather than taking consideration
sometimes you have to not even think
about how you’re approaching the guitar
but just how you’re approaching music
and the kind of headspace you put
yourself in because you can fill your
head up with a lot of knowledge and a
lot of theory and a lot of stuff and
then that can all go out the window
whether you’re in a recording session
and whether you’re playing live yes
that’s one thing I definitely learned
this year is I’ve had so much cool stuff
I’ve learned and I have on my fingers
the one who gets into that real setting
when you have to apply and you’re on the
spot sometimes it just doesn’t come out
right like you know videotaping all your
recording myself a lot the past year
it’s does wonders for somebody when you
hear yourself playing live like oh
that’s not at all what I heard yeah when
I was playing that you know self review
is extremely important yeah so for many
years it was just like I had all this
cool stuff I learned and I kind of got
thrown into a lot of dense music really
quick I didn’t fully know what I was
doing but I would play a lot of really
cool stuff and it would just sound like
sometimes that sounds like John
McLaughlin I listen to said listen to so
much in him like earlier on be kind of
like it would just be mumbled like a sax
player playing nonsense and saxophone
just kind of like playing a bunch of
stuff but it was there’s no meaning
there wasn’t anything there wasn’t any
real melody there so now it’s definitely
at this point my life taking a step back
and realizing I can really utilize all
that theory knowledge yeah yeah so you
say you spent how much time with this
instructor and then all the while you
you weren’t per actually preparing for
Berkeley or were you no I well I well I
did I was preparing for something
preparing for degrees right that boy
once he became he became my teacher and
live with me for that time right that
was like I think I was a senior in high
school never gonna end of senior year
going to the first year of college sorry
I wanted to a local university there and
pretty much decided okay I’ll do two
years and get all my excuse me
you turn in core classes yeah well let’s
stop taking all the ways when I get to
Berkeley they can just try and focus on
exactly what I want to do or study with
as many people as possible mmm
but at that point yeah I was definitely
there’s still some sort of certainty
that was going to be doing something in
music but I don’t be taking pursuing
like a full like bachelor’s degree which
I end up getting you know that was so
under question but I definitely wanted
to go to Berkeley and my teacher had
gotten accepted Berkeley full ride
he’s as a Canadian he could not he could
not or no actually he got accepted
because he got the scholarship that’s
what he got accepted he got as far as
being one of the Canadian resident or
something I don’t know but then he
couldn’t go cuz gonna pay for housing so
he already knew a little bit of ways
around the curriculum and what they
might expect so I think in a way is can
I prepare me a little bit to go to
Berkeley and then kind of just so
happened to be that I did really well my
audition got a scholarship and I ended
up there in the fall of 2014
very cool okay so this is one of the
things that I’m really interested in
talking to you about like ID I went to
music school at George Mason okay I was
in their jazz department yeah do jazz
guitar and but I remember when I first
got the idea in my head like Berkeley
was what immediately came to mind for me
yeah and then like I looked at the price
tag and I was instantly swayed maybe
this isn’t the right course of action
for me
right right I’d really like to know what
what is it about Berkeley that sets it
apart from say George Mason’s jazz
program I mean I realized that there’s
probably things to do with the
connections out of school yeah but I
mean I am I’m not sure what the right
answer is but I’d like to dive into it I
mean the connection thing is a big thing
especially at Berkeley because you have
if you were to go look at the faculty
list of just the guitar department alone
mm-hmm I think it’s Pat Metheny went
through there any yeah he did yeah you
taught there briefly got a young age I
believe as well in Dean or 19 or 18 yeah
he was one of the first and only to just
run through there and already kind of I
wasn’t here he figured out a core tool
stuff and all the by two
now to stuff yet his own way of thinking
about I mean it’s at I mean he’s crazy
really he knew how to really good to
stack the like the harmony keys over one
another make it work but yeah my I
believe is like close to hundreds of my
guitar faculty members guitar teachers
alone there’s something like that at
least eighty so you have so many people
from like David fuzinski to what is
the Tomo its Fujita
well there’s first of all like a lot
there’s lots of names like it attracted
so when you’re when you’re looking at
you want to go to the school is there’s
there’s a lot of kind of eye candy at
first with all these names people you
can even study with and some really
really cool courses I mean for me it was
it was a big draw for this faculty like
I made some great relationships with
some faculty members there and the
diverse amount of styles you know
because you can get so and like some
sorta very specific things I got into an
Indian rhythmic so Fez while I was there
which was like super cool like that’s
there’s there’s some courses that I
provide up there that you’re not gonna
get anywhere else but for me whether or
not you’re going in for connections of
course for me was partially connections
but also to get my degree
some people go there for a year they
don’t get a degree just to meet the
teachers I mean the teachers they’re our
world class means some of the best of
the best in the world that it better
they’re doing labs and whatnot at me
mmm-hmm it’s hard to find somewhere
where you can have like a Lenny Breau
lab where you just go over self of Lenny
Bros arrangements you know stuff like
that I think it’s really really unique
to only that specific place you can find
stuff you know online now and everything
but to get all that jam-packed and one
area per say so much talent so much
diversity in talent it’s it’s truly just
remarkable that’s a that’s pretty it’s
great to hear I mean it sounds like
you’re really satisfied with it all I
was very satisfied I mean yes the the
money-wise it was tough but thank God
for the scholarship a lot of people
there you know they were very very good
be better than me we’re not on
scholarship and should be I think you
know so sometimes there is that there’s
that divide I guess you could say
between people you know when you’re when
you’re at a school that costs a lot of
money and you see people that deserve
more and don’t get it there is this
there’s this kind of thing they were
kind of it might it might push you away
because a lot I go there I’m not gonna
be able to afford it anyways or you
gonna be right for you I don’t know
there’s so many factors at play when you
when you look at the price tag at first
I guess yeah it’s not like you can
really I never felt like while I was in
school I had time to have a job I felt
like it’s toxic for all the effort that
I was put the money and time I was
putting into school yeah I couldn’t like
go and get some sort of part-time job
that was gonna pay for a little bit of
I’d rather completely you know given my
a hundred percent yeah it was you know
learn as much as I could while I was
there and then yeah and out there and
start making real money exactly yeah
so I didn’t do much work I was there but
I tell you why there’s some of the the
variety of courses they have their butts
weather is now so I took some amazing
harmony courses as well I mean mm-hmm
advanced modal harmony a bunch of stuff
on a modal harmony and then some more
stuff like Indian modes and the raw
doesn’t so like that so it’s just it’s
all sorts of stuff I mean hey you find
it yeah yeah yeah so you know I didn’t
even expect to get into all that stuff
you know I was always like I’d listen
some Indian classical music every now
and then but I didn’t know a lot about
it so I got I got to learn a bunch of
stuff about that the rhythmic side of
things and culturally speaking where it
came from and the difference is north of
India all this service all this done
really it’s really remarkable and then I
yeah we had a we did an episode I think
is like episode 10 or somewhere around
there we did an episode on world music
yeah yeah and we were getting into a
bunch of that but I think I think the
Indies music is incredible – I yeah yeah
I went to India for my honeymoon
actually about a year and a half ago
and we were in North Indian like I never
actually found it’s hard to find the
music while you’re there really in a
place where yeah maybe in if I had been
spent more time in Delhi in the big
cities yeah but I saw a lot of like folk
music yeah like you know who died poor
down south western Rajasthan they had
like a very specific I mean I guess it’s
like if you’re in the mountains of North
Carolina you’re bluegrass and like
remnants of Celtic music coming through
the Appalachian Land if you’re you know
out west there’s hints of Native
American music mixed with like I’m
thinking of Ayers yeah yeah yeah it was
interesting to see the the local the
different types of music in different
parts of India yeah I mean you know I
think what’s great about Berkeley is
that they have all these ensembles to I
mean so many different kinds ensembles
for in there and they’re getting more
and more like it so every little tiny
finite kind of John like specific on the
dramas whether it’s doing like the
having an ensemble doing Indian
classical music or or doing just the
musical Wayne Shorter more doing just
like a neo-soul thing you know that’s
been a very popular thing the past
couple years you know and actually one
of the pioneers of it per se Roy
Hargrove just passed away he did a lot
from the oh so it’s kind of bridging R&B;
and jazz and hip hop together and that’s
there’s a lot of that going on right now
definitely that’s a big thing there so
tailoring to both what’s new when people
want to do and also tailor a bunch of
other stuff people wanna they didn’t
know they would never get into like I
didn’t think I could get into any finger
style country stuff like Jerry Reed and
Chet Atkins and I didn’t I did the
ensemble they’re like six times in a row
a charity attack and stuff and that’s
what I was amazing I’ve learned so much
more selling about solo guitar and I
take care of your fingers nails yeah
this one broke but then these are good
can clip off your pinky
yeah and then glue it to your
it’s easy with my pinky that’s the one
thing about Lenny Breau actually is that
his new son was deformed so he was able
to actually get a little more strength
or something yeah yeah now I’m just
making a joke last week we had a
classical guitarist on and he was like
that’s a funny story so check out that
episode it’s kind of funny yeah one of
the some of these the way they what they
used for nails is hilarious I remember
um the chair of the guitar horn at
Berkeley her assistant chair Kim pair
Lac whose chair now she would use of
ping pong balls yeah yeah these specific
kind of ping pong balls
that’s a mug yeah neither until now now
it’s a parent thing that’s awesome I
just think it was so cool though with
the eye specifically with the Jerry Chet
Atkins thing is that there is you get
people within the fingerstyle realm of
guitar you know who either have a
classical background or they don’t
really and so a lot of these people are
there it’s kind of funny I think a lot
of the classical players but well
thumbpick thing is a big thing I don’t
use a thumb pick so I see a mix cuz he’s
a lot of these classical players that
have a big a lot of practice in time
studying using you know the traditional
approach like nylon string getting that
finger style approach down and then for
me I never took me a long time to get
used to it but it’s so fun to see how
people get around the fretboard was just
the way they’re brought up whether it’s
classical style or whether they prefer a
rock player all their life whatever it’s
very interesting to see how they
approach the fretboard you learn a lot
just from looking at watching other
people I mean that was one of the best
things about being face to face with so
many great teachers there and while I
was at Berkeley I had the privilege to
study with like five termagant our
teachers I think yeah there’s something
like that and then of course you know
ensembles in labs but just being in
front of someone with such a sheer
amount of talent and just watching them
and sometimes isn’t you can’t really do
much but just watch I’m taking as much
as you can because it’s kind of just so
intense and such a it’s so mind-boggling
when you’re in the moment like seeing
in front of you right doing this
absolutely insane thing guitar like oh
maybe be able to do that 10-15 years
so going into Berkeley what was the
because I’m sure there was an
intimidation factor how was it actually
because I mean it’s world-renowned I’m
sure there’s lots of people you know who
listened with podcasts who have heard of
Berkeley even in India or wherever it is
across seas
we have listeners from all over the
world you know Berkeley’s got such a big
name around it going into Berkeley it’s
I can’t imagine what that would be like
in terms of wow that was very this is a
lot yeah
very nervous very to me you know I knew
I was getting thrown into a place where
there be a lot of competition and for me
I’m a very competitive the prices and
the competition was good and now is that
is that is that evident is that you are
the people there are they competitive or
is it for more of a brotherhood or I
mean is that is that competitive nature
known yes and no I mean because the
competitive nature goes as far as when
you just see someone just destroying
your world like this person comes in and
they’re like 18 and you are on your last
semester and they’re just eating up
everything that you spend like all this
time on you know right so certain things
like that words I could push is you see
someone come in and it just really
pushes you to what just want to play it
harder to practice harder to do more
because it’s just you just there’s such
the sheer amount of town there’s so many
people that come through there they’re
just so simply good it just it just
blows your mind I mean yeah that’s why I
was just so intimidated going in there
first and that would have some tough
times during like the addition the the
audition process in the beginning and
like the rating process was it a of a
rating system there as well that helps
you get placed in the higher level
ensembles and whatnot so just some of
the auditions at first like in being in
the room with like two three really
heavy hitting faculty members mm-hm and
just I don’t know it was really it was
you have to I wasn’t as good as I am now
but like dealing with stress like I’m
really good about dealing with stress
now but like
that’s the thing you have to be able to
put aside yeah I’m a good player because
they can all go out the window when
you’re nervous or when you can’t get
your head right can’t get your head
clear it all can go right out the window
and I just has there be so much stuff
feeling you have all this this whole big
arrangement course a little thing I had
prepared when I first got there and the
others and I just went all out I got so
nervous as when all out the window came
back together is like moonlight in
Vermont right I did like a Chinese myth
arrangement of Mulan for my because I’m
doing going over that like before I got
there right and it just like the second
course was good but the first course was
like rough okay had it really bring it
on the home at the end you know but it’s
just it could be really intimidating you
but you have to not get discouraged it
to be encouraged by the fact that
there’s so many people that do want to
share their knowledge with you they
don’t just want to be walking around
like mr. and mrs. bigshot and like just
have this like glowing or I think it’s
going to be floating above you looking
never gonna get there like people are
very open to want to help teach each
other new concepts and whatnot it’s just
talking about the Eden’s are very open
like older students are more yes both
students and of course teachers you know
I mean yeah okay it’s not gonna be a
good teacher I’m just gonna know okay
sorry I gotta be as good as me
so that has I have a question that comes
to mind written within the past week or
two there’s been this discussion with
like Rick Beato and Adam Neely about
movies that are out and how they portray
music and specifically schools they’re
talking about one specific movie yeah
and the brutality behind it yeah whether
any moments for you at Berkeley that
were I can’t say brutal but bru death
and like points where you’re just like
holy like wow this is okay which is in
my opinion a good thing I mean it was
the best learning experience I had and
it happened my last two semesters there
mmm-hmm it was with a private teacher by
the name of David trans oh he is a he’s
a slide primarily a slide guitar player
that’s very much in there
of jazz and beyond he does a lot of
urban garden even prepared guitar type
stuff but he’s one of the only slide
jazz guitar players I think theories
that they playing bebop and straight
ahead stuff with slide and then very
much so cool very much more beyond that
but that’s just like to kind of give you
a little in a nutshell what this kind of
guy is he’s just very out there it’s
very very serious hmm which is you have
to be like especially with jazz it’s you
have to give respect and due credit
where it’s due you have to really spend
a lot of time knowing your stuff there
know the history and he was just really
big on knowing history no I am knowing
you shouldn’t you come in and not
prepared what are you doing here I mean
it’s a little thing it’s really simple
it’s just like but it’s stuff that most
teachers won’t call people out on right
because it’s they’d either don’t want to
create some sort of animosity between
them I suppose would create an awkward
or tense learning environment however he
would push me to go home and practice
his and that was his goal and that’s why
I understand he was kind of who seems to
push you and go home like hey listen
today was really bad you you know I was
gonna kick you out within the first 15
minutes you know you should go home and
really think about this today and then
where you putting your money and take
the seriously otherwise you might as
well just stop showing up you know they
pretty essentially like that yeah yeah
you’re wasting my time and you’re
wasting your time exactly my my last
semester I was studying with Sean
Purcell and at George Mason and I
remember he was one of the first people
that told me I need to drop out of bands
yeah he was very serious like cuz I was
telling him like he’s like you need more
you need to practice this more and I was
like well like literally I have spent
every waking moment of my life doing
music and he’s like well I want you to
tell me every waking moment of your life
what exactly you’re doing and he’s like
you went to band rehearsals like I was
like well I’m playing music and he’s
like how much is that paying for your
schooling how much is that paying for
your future I was like well it’s you
know it’s the networking and it’s
people depending on me is like no you
need to drop out of the bands yeah it
was that that was tough to hear it was
just giving out a taste of the real
world you know just and my talking about
things like New York he this teacher
mind David Chancellor I spend a lot of
time in New York gigging and touring
around the world but uh you know just
talking about like for instance you know
do I want to go to New York yes one day
I mean sordid maybes I can seduce no
answer dude I’m like well yes and so
just kind of like we he’s preparing me
especially again in the world of jazz in
New York it’s very it’s very strict and
you can get essentially I guess haze if
you will mm-hmm if you go there you
don’t have your stuff together or if you
show up to a gig late or not prepared or
you got this attitude there’s a million
things that could happen if you know
your cell together and all it takes is
for some one person to say something bad
about you and that one person is gonna
tell their friends they’re gonna tell
their friends before you know it you’ve
kind of been like blacklisted do this in
this town so the last thing you want is
to show up somewhere new and make a fool
out of yourself or show up somewhere and
not and not be prepared not have their
energy and attitude to bring forth like
a very sustainable and and an energetic
like creative atmosphere but just really
give me a taste the weirwood in real
world and then made a big difference in
how I deal with pressure and how I deal
with stress and how I approach the
guitar and how I approach thinking about
music it’s good I I know it’s it’s hard
for a lot of people to take I mean we
are humans and were more fragile
you’re gonna have a bad day before we
even go in and have a worse day you know
yeah Thursday’s we was having a terrible
day and I got to go undo this you know
now on the right headspace know I was
working on a bunch of other work and I
didn’t get to go through the solo piece
unless I wanted I’m already pissed
myself and you go in and it gets worse
yeah we’re in that’s just and everybody
has those days but you need to use those
to grow and learn that really evaluate
but why am I here and why am I doing
this and how serious am I taking this is
right you know it’s a wake-up call to a
lot of people and yes a lot of people
need that they need that yeah it was a
wake-up call for me I had I was like my
second one can I around that time to
really mean to take my work seriously
and Rio gato II and still even now like
it’s big thing I’m now how I I go about
work and what I need to do to really get
what I want right right being able to
see many factors three to five steps
down the road and being I kind of set
yourself up for that yeah I mean there’s
one thing for living in the moment sure
that’s that’s extremely important but
you always have to have this kind of
grand vision of what am i working
towards and right what what do I see was
for myself down the road and how do I
get to that how I set myself up for
those those situations easy despite all
of this I mean you can make out this
whole jazz scene in this playing jazz to
be this really yeah I think if I was
listening in I would be intimidated
right now if I’d if I wasn’t a jazz
player and I was yes interested in
becoming one but I I want to I want to
back step a little bit like if you’re
starting jazz like you don’t need to
play you don’t need to start with bebop
you don’t need to go out not only as
your first like that’s actually stupid I
think yeah like like if you’ve never
picked up a guitar and you try to play a
Joe Satriani something like that’s just
not the place to start like a nice
standard something like modal like some
right yeah so what from exactly it’s
like you got to start with take baby
steps and enjoy the process right and
you don’t need to go out and be able to
like rip a bebop solo like Patrick off
the bat like yeah you know learn to play
you’re just learn to play arpeggios and
yeah play a couple netplay less yeah
exactly play less that’s just the
problem is that you know especially I
think as a guitar player and this isn’t
something I learned when I was taking
lessons again with that guy is how much
stuff I had skipped over because you get
there’s so much cool intense stuff that
you want to learn you can learn like
let’s just say you know
this little air freshener guy here so
let’s say that this is like the tree of
knowledge and of like everything guitar
right so everybody starts here on
everybody starts here at the bottom
mm-hmm and like here’s like your modes
and like scales and stuff
mm-hmm no no look at this here’s like a
really cool way you can play these male
scales look at his cords and everything
right then you skip like all this
something learning all these standard
standard so here’s a really intense on
oh I just learned this really dense song
and I can play whatever I what no if you
can’t I think it’s so easy to want to
skip over so much of the basic stuff and
so much stuff that seems really boring
or it’s not gonna take you anywhere and
that was a big problem of mine and
especially because there is so much
stuff well then we talked with any wrong
reason with in jazz and it’s like you
you can go you can get really deep too
fast and then you find yourself like I
found myself like in the middle of a
like well okay I gotta take a step back
and go and really learn the basics yeah
and just because I’m stressed I was
stressed that was stressing me out
like not being able to like blow over
these changes the way I could like I
would be able to do it for a little bit
and then go back and it’s all gone keep
up with it yeah you’re like you’re
spinning like a now your day of trying
to learn like Augmented licks and right
and then it’s like I hardly even use it
I heard other basic stuff nothing to
pull from you got to learn where that
comes from
right now just comes out you have to
learn where all the stuff come from and
all this theory all this really dense
licks and less of it all is formed from
from very very basic stuff yeah
especially in the guitar there’s tons of
shapes there’s putting connecting to
things when arpeggios and upper
structure isn’t like the way everything
works it sets itself out really
beautiful let me take some time and take
a step back it’s for me I definitely
really overwhelmed myself with jazz in
the beginning I stepped in too deep like
too quick and I learned a couple stairs
and immediately went and learned like
Donnelly exactly and had that down right
and I was like I never I even had it I
was playing it like 300 BPM and I was
making video so it’s gonna send it to
mm-hmm because what Marcel has just
gotten named the head of jazz sighs even
though that he’s really over there that
much but I was like I’m gonna send what
Marcel’s and send all those people
interacting like awesome stars even like
I couldn’t I would play the melody like
solo and I wouldn’t be able to like play
the melody out so fast you know it’s
like you can’t play what you don’t know
I think like George Benson is someone
said that while I was just having the
conversation with somebody recently it’s
like you want to play all these cool
things but you don’t know where it’s
coming from and you got to figure out
what was coming from before it really
actually sounds good
you could play a note for no but it
won’t it sound good if it’s like so
foreign to you yeah yeah the foundations
are so very important and I truly
believe that the majority of people skip
over it’s like it’s very easy yes I was
having a discussion with Joe earlier
this week about we’re writing something
together for the future of fret buzz the
podcast and okay I was talking about how
I was taking one of my students she’s I
think she’s nine years old and I spent
the last month on the circle of fifths
with her month and that’s like and then
I actually looked in the how Leonard
method book you know book one or no it’s
in book two and it’s at the top of the
page it says key change and it’s one
page or yeah yeah time spit or no it’s
not time its keys it’s it’s you know
talk about keys and it’s one page I’m
like yeah okay right right so it’s it’s
a may even in books even in method books
and this is one of my all-time pet
peeves is how every single method book
will just give you what a triad is they
don’t actually take you through the
process of figuring out on your own what
a triad is and how to build them within
any key they just you know you turn the
page and all of a sudden there’s your
you know one four five two three six and
seven and it’s all laid out for you in
front of you and you’re like I didn’t I
didn’t I didn’t go through any of that
process at all and that’s a huge process
that you have to go through in order for
you to kind of get the foundation
otherwise this just a bunch of stuff on
a page you’re like yeah yeah I guess I
need to memorize this and you do like
for me I memorized all that but it took
a long time for a lot of stuff that
really settled in the way and which
looking back on it like what actually
clicked and made sense you just have to
really write it’s like a language you
have to learn the basics it’s like a you
know a fourth grader coming out and
talking like Shakespeare it doesn’t it
doesn’t happen you know and even if they
did they’d have no idea what they’re
talking about you really need to learn
the foundations first in order to be
able to create paragraphs and essays and
have it all there so then when it’s here
playing you’re not thinking when you see
these chords and you see a progression
where you see one chord or something you
just know you don’t have to think about
it you just play yeah and all this
beautiful stuff comes out thunders out
just perfectly yeah and if you want to
keep it to a basic foundation at that
part’s suite but then you can you know
here and there
do a little flourish of some color
because you know how to and you know
when it should come up and pull it back
and then bring it in and pull it back
and that’s the that’s the language of
music being ya know when to speak and
when to actually hold back yeah I love
listening to the old blues players when
I’m like I like going back to like I’ll
get caught up in in jazz blues Tunes but
then I like killing wanted a BB King
player or somebody like that I’m like oh
my god he’s played like three you know
it’s a little you know a few bars and
they were the perfect notes it’s amazing
I mean our King and BB King Freddie King
three things they’re all great I mean
opera canes one of my favorites because
you know I just like the guitar tax or
someone off the show would pick up his
guitar and couldn’t even figure out like
what tuning it’s not anywhere close to
the standard tuning guitar that thing
would be too different all the time he
would just be bending up to the note so
not only is he employing very simple so
he’s also making a work under certain
whatever way he knows how it’s just it’s
they playing it with such conviction
it’s such feeling like that it makes
such a big difference and that’s where I
learned a lot doing the BB King Oscar
thing this past year is playing with
feelings and I think it’s gonna going
back now in time my life where I’m about
to start going full force into learning
jazz standards again is that with
everything else going so going on
forward though is that time and feeling
is everything and rhythm is the
validator that’s a quote I remember that
my teacher told me trans oh they’re
really tough when I was time I said no
matter what you can be playing to crowd
everyone can connect to the rhythm no
one you could play this big fancy
streaming line of of notes and you you
know you played this amazing like really
fast like a minor pentatonic over itby
if I may just happen to give it like
this like really cool Lydian sound or
something and no one’s gonna care okay
except for like three people except for
us recall that was really cool right
that was know that everybody else is
like I hear it yeah yeah and then
another didn’t you didn’t feel anything
right so it’s like you got to present
your ideas in a way to the crowd that’s
that’s that makes sense and that’s just
such a tough thing that’s when you hear
these players all these blues players
why is it sound so good because you can
hear it they can really hear feel what
they’re playing and they put it out
there and they present it in a way
that’s very accessible to all ears and
all you know you have to make music very
accessible and that’s why sometimes even
jazz can really straight people away
because it can not be so accessible at
first you know might be kind of
intimidating or it might seem like it’s
really dense you know but there’s so
much other stuff going on that really
what meets the ear and the eye
speaking of accessibility I’ve mentioned
this before on previous podcast but like
I I left school and I found out that a
like it was hard to find a place that
would let me play jazz right yeah so
eyes now at the bar like a regular bar
gig you know it’s not like yeah I mean
even the retirement homes they didn’t
want me to like really they don’t want
to hear they
want to hear bebop that’s for sure they
like they want to hear like misty and
misty they want to hear those kind of
things but they don’t want anybody to
play you know bebop but uh I’ve started
to actually take I take the jazz tunes
and I’ll put them with a really modern
groove yeah with a really clear downbeat
like I I find that the rhythm section
loses a lot of people that don’t
understand jazz you’re like the dry you
know you’ll be going through the that
you know the foreman
nobody even really hit there’s no crash
at the top there’s nothing but it gets a
lot where they are yeah no no yeah it’s
like you take the same testing like I do
this with Bopp olicity a lot from Miles
Davis and Gil Evans it’s like a super
cool I do a chord solo beautiful yeah
I do a chord solo thing but I put it
with my looper and I put a hip hop
groove behind it yeah and it starts out
and people like man that was cool what
was that it was like those Miles Davis
no way here comes the sub drop that
crazy but it’s it grooves it’s very
clear rhythmically and people really
like a lot of the jazz tunes I do miss
the upbeat with an R&B; group behind it
yeah really well kill me I’m just saying
I think jazz I feel very strongly that
jazz needs to not be like people need to
bring their noses down and like make it
accessible at least in some realms like
yeah you can go out and like play a jazz
show at a jazz club and you don’t have
to you know you do it traditionally but
I really like jazz that that brings in a
lot of the modern you know alright just
as basic rhythm anyway I mean I guess we
could say it’s musicians music to a
sense but then all there’s all sorts of
styles that is geared towards musicians
like I think sometimes people get
overwhelmed because they don’t know
what’s going on
let me hear a lot of this stuff
it’s just it’s whether or not yeah
whether or not you’re musician it’s
really easy to get swayed it’s just get
turned off by it like if there’s too
much going on you get bored I don’t
understand what’s going on you get bored
like you have to feel the end yeah it
has to be accessible yeah so I’m gonna
go back into your time at Berkeley okay
and leading through your story a little
bit okay you at at your final semester
and exiting Berkeley were what were your
what were your ideas what were you
thinking about in terms of your once you
actually leave Berkeley what it what are
you being set up for and what are your
you know what are your ideas in terms of
what’s what’s next for you well and sort
of start to appear towards the end that
I was giving a lot of different styles
under my fingers and those being being
molded into a pretty versatile player so
I think what I’d toward the end that was
coming out being confident that I could
either get picked up to go onto a tour
somebody or do some session work
something where I could just kind of be
the guy who can call and sit in and be
and be willing and able and ready to
produce different styles of music in the
way that’s actually comes across like
like it whether now you might fully know
it you know because sometimes you don’t
fully know exactly what you need to
bring forth in a certain recording
session but I think that I was very well
equipped to be faced with a lot of
different kind of sessions and different
styles and be able to do it do its
justice whether or not I might have had
a lot experience playing like flat music
recently or gypsy jazz or something like
that for instance you know but getting a
little bit of this and that here and
like I was very confident was gonna get
work but the thing was when I got out of
there like well I don’t know what I
didn’t really know what I was gonna do I
was little back and I was gonna go back
go I’m gonna start first one start
teaching a little bit and I’m gonna
start doing gigs I want to really write
work on writing music seven past couple
years I’ve written music and I just
haven’t compiled it together so it’s
like oh I want to make a band or I want
to go just try and find tour opportunity
very cluttered I was actually very
cluttered here and I don’t know well I I
and I asked that because I think that’s
a very common theme with a lot of people
where they’re coming out of an
institution of any sort yeah and they’re
about to graduate and you have all these
ideas of what could happen yeah but then
when you’re thrown on the other side of
that you’re kind of like whoa
yeah there’s I in order for there to be
something there I have to make it happen
and that in itself is pretty that’s
that’s a huge job unto itself is to
finding work for yourself yeah sometimes
institutions have a placement program
and they’ll set you up with some right
yeah but but just going out and finding
that work for yourself whether it is
touring or whether it’s teaching or I
mean any of those avid studio work
that’s that’s all I think a lot of where
your networking comes in and yeah almost
on your exit of any one of those places
you have to be in that process already
because there are a lot of people on the
other side of it kind of go okay this is
yeah this is a lot harder than I thought
it was and I don’t know what to do with
myself and the more time that you wait
your chances of doing something within
the music profession start dwindling
more than more yes I guess what I
mention you know about the style is like
being able to come out there that was
one thing I was confident in you know I
could be very uncertain about the future
and one would be forward but at least I
came out of Berkeley being very well
equipped and I was very grateful that I
actually did so many different things
while I was there and did so many
different ensembles you know I didn’t
Motown ensemble Jerry Reed myself just
regular straight-ahead jazz everything
yeah Indian stuff so I was at least
confident my and and and and knowing
that like well if I if I might pick up
some work that I don’t necessarily I
don’t want to say what to do but you
know may kind of doing some gigs I might
not read right down your alley at least
I’m equipped well enough to go to
to be able to fit into that style yeah
so I can work on my own stuff on the
side and take out where I want to go but
just I felt very well equipped to be
able to do this and that and pickup work
but it was like you know all of a sudden
you’re about to leave and you have
nothing serious setup you are they’re
gonna like go do an internship you’re
gonna move back home you know you’re
gonna hang around Boston for a little
bit or hang around where you were around
the teachers and students kind of and
see if he can make something happen you
know that I was working with I was
working with some teachers there once he
have this one of the guys in the Gospel
Department I got really big into Gospel
while I was there and they had some very
good ensembles there does become me the
third was a good friend of mine he had
actually pretty much started the whole
gospel program there if you were like
back in the 80s and this he has like six
seven different ensembles from Negro
spirituals to men’s gospel woman’s
gospel and overjoyed and I spend a lot
of time playing with him and it’s like
he kind of I was kind of gonna hold on
to as long as I could I think to also
you know hang in there I see people do
that kind of hanging around to use they
made friends with and seen if they can
get work but you have to understand that
you can’t just hang around somebody that
Ari has a good thing going and I expect
them to kind of bring you in there’s
only so much somebody can do but we
really have to be looking out for
yourself right and although I was very
grateful to kind of spend as much time
as it did with a particular teacher and
be able to work with them as much as I
did you got to go out and do your own
thing and then throw yourself into the
middle of it and be okay with not
exactly knowing what’s gonna happen but
you need to make sure you’re well
equipped for any and everything right
you know like so I didn’t come out there
I just just straight ahead Jasper I
didn’t come out there it’s just like an
RB you know I’m gonna play my minor nine
everywhere some people make that stuff
sound really good you know so people
have one thing to stick with they sound
so good you can play someone can just
play a straight blues shuffle’ way
better than someone else can because
they just that’s just they sound really
good doing it right know so for me I was
like okay well I can sound good enough
doing multiple different styles and some
styles I sound very strong in so the
least I’m very confident for you
grateful that my time at this particular
school Brickley enabled me to be able to
have sway different learning experiences
and they had the created almost senator
there of course was I went to and pretty
much what I was instructed there was
which I’ve been doing was to get my
online resume so that maybe we’ll which
includes Instagram for the most part a
website and LinkedIn but I don’t really
think LinkedIn isn’t that efficient for
musicians nowadays unless you’re trying
to get a job like within a school
network of schools or possibly doing
some more corporate stuff for me working
for like parks music box or something
but I was instructed when I left there
was to get my online presence as strong
as I can and then to just to get content
build content that wasn’t anything I’ve
been trying to do a lot this year and
considering in the next year did they
have any classes at Berkeley like music
business classes like oh yeah do your
personal you know yeah how to set up
your website how to set up your teaching
studio how to do your taxes all sorts of
stuff man and you would you know looking
back on now I should have utilized a lot
of that a lot more but I chose that
utilize other stuff more I chose to go
to these really cool classes and these
concerts and stuff where I could have
you know that day maybe I shoulda gone
to that recital maybe I shoulda guard to
the our lecture on how what what what
how the copyright something what does
copyright you know think little things
like that now I have to look up and
figure out like well Dan I kind of
missed out some of that stuff you know
yeah and they did offer a lot of that
that wasn’t just you know straight music
mutely out of music business program
there and they have some great teachers
there I had want my good friends who
graduated these business department and
I took some classes there and it was
very good very informative it’s easy to
overlook all that everybody wants to
overlook all that when you’re just
surrounded by a bunch of talent a bunch
of really cool courses and you just want
to play play play you know that’s what
you want to do you want to go there and
just play your butt off and and just jam
with friends and just going and get
renting out on solid real for four hours
and just playing and you know which is
great you need that
you learn a lot by being around other
students and whatnot you know everybody
studying from somebody else and
everybody’s trying to bring something
forth but again yeah I didn’t I wish I
had taken a step back like I am now and
really Rio gobbing how I think about
myself with musician and what I think
about music business and how much you
really need to be well-equipped in the
world of the music business and know
your way around advertising yourself
because essentially all of us coming out
of there you know we’re all in business
for ourselves we’re all entrepreneurs
you know I created an LLC for myself I
am my own company so I can start to
write off all the traveling all the
driving and all the gear so I get some
some tax write-off later for that you
know because you have to start doing
little things like that my life like to
try and save as much money as you can
and then we are in business for itself
it’s it takes a lot more than you think
you really have to spend a lot of time I
need to write out a plans and my goals
so write out a big agenda of the plan
and see where I am right now and where I
want to be and trying as an organization
because you don’t have any organization
at all which I again was really poor
with and getting better than that and
now but it really helps to have some
sort of plan to be a little organized
and if you don’t get to what you want to
be like you can’t get discouraged a lot
of my friends are having to work regular
jobs because they just think wherever
they might have moved through where they
are right now it’s hard to get work yeah
well they’re it’s just a normal gig or
whether it’s a wedding gig or just
steady work you know just because some
of this work is in that study I’m very
thankful that this Cruz thing that’s one
of the best things about the Cruz game
is that at this study so how did that oh
okay take again oh you’re gonna say
something yeah before we jump I wanted
to I wanted to go back to the you you
mentioned being an LLC so I yeah you
started your own I don’t have that but I
do write off all of those things
i I you can still draw yeah I log on on
mileage to and from lessons gigs all my
equipment is on a sheet and they
actually do like I do the
what’s it called when you’re it becomes
less valuable each year uh depreciation
I do I get – right right what’s it like
analysis pay attention a little more now
it’s all paying off yeah I mean you
gotta be I say this all the time but
like I have an Excel spreadsheet my
master woman for the year yeah log
invoice every time I was paid for that
invoice there’s color codes and I like
people in the real world don’t pay you
off like and often not on purpose they
will lose the invoice and like later
you’re like you know what I never got
paid for some gig and like I got an
email and they’re like oh sorry yeah
like you gotta be really organized and
look after your yes look after yourself
one of the best classes I took at George
Mason was called the art of teaching
music and the first half of the class so
they had they split it into two parts
and the first half was all focused on
actually teaching private lessons and
like we would actually do you know we
would teach each other or she even
brought in the teacher brought in some
of her private kids like kid kids today
I would as a class somebody would teach
them and everyone would like sit around
and watch then we to analyze what they
did and stuff very helpful for like
thinking about how to approach private
how did not come across as a know-it-all
in her head and like how to get down on
their level and talk about things that
are meaningful it was great that part
was great but I really really got a lot
out of the business side of it where we
literally had to write our own like
private studio business plan a you know
the kind of thing that you give out to
your your students the first day you you
have them like here’s my late policy
here’s my so much less yeah yeah like if
you’re not if you miss a lesson you’re
either you have to decide whether you’re
going to charge them for that lesson and
it’s much better to be upfront about
these things than to just like let
people walk all
over you cuz ya have a policy a lot of
times like I it’ll be okay right yeah we
learned how to do we talked a lot about
taxes in that class yep a lot of
real-world stuff and I use that so much
yeah every day I mean maybe I was older
when I went back to school yeah I was 25
when I went back and look I’d already
spent four years working professional
job and I yeah I knew the I was very
aware of how fortunate I was to be back
in school and it seemed like a dream
come true to me
and I was surrounded by 18 19 year-olds
who were I love them but I I was in a
different mental place I’m totally
different and it’s so interesting when
all those couple years make such a
difference we know when he’d go to
college 18 19 for me when I was there 20
going on 21 going to Berkeley and I was
there so last year mm-hmm but like how
much the past three years I’m 24 almost
25 like the past three four years how
much I’ve changed like how I think about
mm-hmm I think about where I’m going and
how I can help take care of myself my
career it makes such a big difference
and you know it’s like you really need
to put almost construct your own kind of
curriculum your own kind of syllabus for
yourself based on where you’re on where
you’re going give yourself at least some
sort of structure if it’s so hard to
have absolutely no structure and not
having any certain Oh boss exactly so
you have no direction which then becomes
very terrified that’s what’s very scary
is that one you don’t have at least
somebody breathing down your neck being
a complete you know it’s just evil
person you know like there’s times and I
was like I was really having a tough
time having taking lessons with one
teacher at Berkeley but and you get
pissed off in the moment but then once
all that’s gone and you realize how much
you need it that you’d still need it or
you would like to go through that
process a new level yeah and that’s that
kind of goes back to what I was saying
before is is that you know when you’re
in school you have direction you have to
show up at this time yet for this class
and you have to be over here to do this
and you have a
Sowell at this time and these people are
depending on you and this team is
depending on you and you have all this
work that has to be done because well I
signed up for it right and now that I’m
out of school none of that exists right
at all
and that’s really scary yes some people
can’t do that they know you need a boss
yeah with within your personality it’s
very important that you know that like
am I the kind of person that can lead
and make my own decisions and make my
own path happen or do am I the kind of
person that I need somebody to push me
you need somebody to kind of leave me
alone because otherwise I don’t end up
doing it you get comfortable then your
coat folds where you are but then still
you getting this weird head space where
you’re comfortable where you are but
then you also fed up with where you are
right and you just all of a sudden right
because you’re not usually getting
thrown into that right I find out I get
pushed even though I don’t have a boss I
have like hundreds of bosses like every
right of every student is a boss every
bar owner whatever they’re all my bosses
and I I find that provides a lot of
motivation for me when I have yes yeah
like I had yet to that point is that
that’s my point is it that in between
now you have the bosses but before you
didn’t have any of those bosses you know
what I mean so yeah it took your
personality to create that environment
to have bosses there are people that I
would venture to say there’s a lot of
people that don’t have that initiative
to go out and make that happen if you
don’t have any initiative I don’t know I
don’t know what to tell you but I got a
some amount to go out and find something
like at least walk across the coffee
shop and be like I’d like a gig the
answer have a music they like we only
want acoustic well there’s your
motivation like okay well I’ve been
playing in ensembles and bands and stuff
I need to I need to shed acoustic you
know my finger style for the next few
months so I can get this gig right yep
that’s just an example but like oh you
want to teach piano students I need to
brush up on my piano playing to be able
to really market myself as a beginner
intermediate piano teacher right you
gotta have some sort of some way to make
money with something that you’ve decided
you want to go out and do and set that
goal for yourself it’s just really
disheartening when you have a lot of
these great musicians people I graduated
with and then you have to go through the
conversation and them like well I can
work right now working at this so and so
just to give my for them it’s very
frustrating because you spend all this
money and it might not even be something
you can control when you’re just not
getting working maybe you had this whole
plan and just fell through sometimes in
this world it’s really hard to know
where your profession in the world of
music is going to take you yeah but if
you have to have a plan you know it’s
something neat yes so one of the one of
the wonderful things about George Mason
I mean they I think that George Mason’s
jazz program was was really great
partially because we had big in
Washington DC in that region like my
teacher one had Rick Whitehead had been
he did ten years with the airman of note
and then Sean Purcell is the current
guitarist for the Navy Commodores you
know that’s like presidential events
they’re like we have a lot of the big
stable military bands in the region and
most of the professors had been involved
or were involved with that and there was
an entity center which provided a lot of
you know professional classical music
and that sort of thing yeah but I’m sure
all that being said and I love her jazz
department the music education
department at Mason was really serious
and they spit out like they claimed like
like ninety something percent of their
students got a job like walking out the
door because they were going to work
they placed all the graduates almost
into the school systems to teach which I
thought was really incredibly nice yeah
like that is a serious like you go to
music education you go into this program
you’re gonna walk out the door with a
job right exactly and uh I was I was
always impressed by that
inspired my my route I took all the
music education classes like I took
upper strings and lower strings and I
took woodwinds and things like that too
just because I understood that George
Mason had an emphasis on music education
yeah yeah but another thing and with all
those military bands there was a lot of
we almost always we often had military
recruiters in our lobby yeah
huh lobby and I mean I know a lot of
guys that went the military route and
you graduate from school you go right
down like if you join the Navy man you
go right down to the Navy School of
Music down here in it’s near Virginia
Beach all right
maybe it’s technically in Virginia Beach
but it’s a you know you got like a eight
eight-hour day job where you like
practice music and do your thing and you
you know you travel around the country
playing music and it’s for a good cause
and you know it’s it’s a serious job
yeah you get paid like I don’t have a 50
60 grand a year to go out and play music
right that’s terrific
and so in the surface of you know the
country like you’re trying to you know
promote patriotism and from you know
make people aware of the military so
it’s you’re doing something positive
yeah and you’re making a lot of money so
for all the people that haven’t thought
about military music route is a very
serious route I mean you do it end up
playing a lot of like military music but
that’s not all it is right anyway I just
thought I’d throw that out there are
very specific directions you can go
coming out of school if you if you know
about those directions right and and not
be afraid to just go and do that for a
bit because you’re gonna have to do
something no matter what yeah money come
out of college and might not like I said
might not be something you’re going to
enjoy here might be something just to
bring money in and then you can focus on
what you want to do on the side you know
I had one teacher tell me Rick Peckham
who is in charge he used to be I believe
this isn’t charity but now he just he
runs the
the Jeremy tracking stuff has a lot of
that and as comic or other courses of
teachers but he was like even bridges
doing a some tour with a a bar ban and
he would just spend all his time in the
hotel after the shows practicing reading
and practicing all the throw these books
to prepare himself to be an educator at
some point and he got to where he wanted
to be you know you’re gonna do a gig he
didn’t want to do really play music he
didn’t really want to play but he got
through it and he and equipped himself
to be where he is today memory has been
for the last oh geez over 30 years mm-hm
and he’s loving every moment of it it’s
travel the world goes to India crazy
that’s terrific well speaking of
traveling all over the world I know
Aaron was trying to bring it up a few
min we’re definitely going not

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